EU referendum...THE RESULT...and aftermath...

She wants a second vote, a remainer to the core, played a blinder

There's a lot of them remainers out there. Let alone the 20 million undecided/didn't get a vote/couldn't be arsed.
Compromise is the only way forward, but neither side seems willing. May's plan is a joke  and satisfies nobody, so choreography must be suspected here. They're boring us into surrender.
Here's a question to folk on here. How would you counsel with, say, a personal divorce, when the two parties don't see eye to eye,  and children are involved, with both parties desperate for access ? The main carer is telling the other partner, who fancies a few flings elsewhere, to get lost.

I'd become far too bored to think about it in seconds. What was it you said?

Stick to yer present work Earwig if I were you. You have to listen in order to counsel and help solve friction. Clearly not your area.

Just over 33.5 million votes cast during the referendum.....72.16% of the total possible votes.

That means roughly 12.9 million (27.84%) didn't vote for whatever reason.

Not quite 20 million undecided/didn't get a vote/couldn't be arsed.

I think you're forgetting the under 18s Zippo. They didn't get a vote. They can go to war though, well, some of them, before you nit pick again.
65 million now apparently, and another 3 million plus EU workers must be undesirable aliens because even though they work and live here on a permanent basis and are considered responsible enough to vote on other issues, they didn't get a brexit vote either. What sort of democracy is that ? 35 million voted, 30 million didn't, including me. Take the toddlers and kids out and 20 million is a fair figure of responsible souls not represented.

beesrus wrote:

I think you're forgetting the under 18s Zippo. They didn't get a vote. They can go to war though, well, some of them, before you nit pick again.
65 million now apparently, and another 3 million plus EU workers must be undesirable aliens because even though they work and live here on a permanent basis and are considered responsible enough to vote on other issues, they didn't get a brexit vote either. What sort of democracy is that ? 35 million voted, 30 million didn't, including me. Take the toddlers and kids out and 20 million is a fair figure of responsible souls not represented.

Not really....you cannot move the goalposts to suit your argument.

44,595,665 people were eligible to vote on the day.....nit picking to suit your own argument ain't allowed.

3 million EU workers have no say...like Brits living over there have no say if they have a referendum.

65 million total population including children in this country...so roughly 20 million under the age of the voting age of 18.

Maybe if you had voted you would then have a say for your weird maths to have any value beezy

beesrus wrote:

I think you're forgetting the under 18s Zippo. They didn't get a vote. They can go to war though, well, some of them, before you nit pick again.
65 million now apparently, and another 3 million plus EU workers must be undesirable aliens because even though they work and live here on a permanent basis and are considered responsible enough to vote on other issues, they didn't get a brexit vote either. What sort of democracy is that ? 35 million voted, 30 million didn't, including me. Take the toddlers and kids out and 20 million is a fair figure of responsible souls not represented.

Not really....you cannot move the goalposts to suit your argument.

44,595,665 people were eligible to vote on the day.....nit picking to suit your own argument ain't allowed.

3 million EU workers have no say...like Brits living over there have no say if they have a referendum.

65 million total population including children in this country...so roughly 20 million under the age of the voting age of 18.

Maybe if you had voted you would then have a say for your weird maths to have any value beezy

beesrus wrote:

I think you're forgetting the under 18s Zippo. They didn't get a vote. They can go to war though, well, some of them, before you nit pick again.
65 million now apparently, and another 3 million plus EU workers must be undesirable aliens because even though they work and live here on a permanent basis and are considered responsible enough to vote on other issues, they didn't get a brexit vote either. What sort of democracy is that ? 35 million voted, 30 million didn't, including me. Take the toddlers and kids out and 20 million is a fair figure of responsible souls not represented.

Not really....you cannot move the goalposts to suit your argument.

44,595,665 people were eligible to vote on the day.....nit picking to suit your own argument ain't allowed.

3 million EU workers have no say...like Brits living over there have no say if they have a referendum.

65 million total population including children in this country...so roughly 20 million under the age of the voting age of 18.

Maybe if you had voted you would then have a say for your weird maths to have any value beezy

Blimey, you've posted that twice nay, thrice Francis Zippo, Probably once in your head though.
The goalposts are the goalposts.....65 million of them.
20 million over 16s that didn't vote is probably a fair figure in my mind, In 2016, only 18.9% of folk were under 16 years of age, what I deem to be adult enough to vote, and they certainly are now, 2 years on. In fact, 16 year olds were allowed to vote in the Scotish referendum. I can't think of any reason why they would be more or less sensible and objective than an English soul. So, that's 12 million odd kids out of 65 million. That leaves ( excuse the swear word ) 53 million out of which 33.5 million voted.  20 million didn't..
You clearly think differently. I think you and I have an impasse. We need arbitration and a "backstop"  

The law says differently, 18 to vote in UK except Scotland, makes sod all difference what their age is now, the referendum was in 2016 not 2018.

No one has any idea who's on the bridge of the ship, where the ship's going, how deep the water is, or if the ship has a reverse gear.

But the government is going to let boys become girls and vice versa because that's who they feel like they are, so that's all right then.

Keystone Cops meets Alice in Wonderland...

Sorry Beezy.....didn't seem to post first time.

No back stop needed for my view....when I voted two years back I meant out completely. I can't believe that we've allowed a remainer PM to be in charge of the most important negotiations since Ted Heath got us into this mess....and I voted NO then.

beesrus wrote:

Stick to yer present work Earwig if I were you. You have to listen in order to counsel and help solve friction. Clearly not your area.

By my age you learn who's worth listening to. Pompous fools get short shrift from me. I'll leave the counselling to you.

zyph wrote:

Sorry Beezy.....didn't seem to post first time.

No back stop needed for my view....when I voted two years back I meant out completely. I can't believe that we've allowed a remainer PM to be in charge of the most important negotiations since Ted Heath got us into this mess....and I voted NO then.

This is the problem. May’s ambitions to become PM totally usurped her Remain vote.

What’s alarming is this whole sorry mess is almost certain to see the country soon to be led by Jeremy Corbyn. A state of play that could prove catastrophic jobs-wise for a military city such as Plymouth.

zyph wrote:

Sorry Beezy.....didn't seem to post first time.

No back stop needed for my view....when I voted two years back I meant out completely. I can't believe that we've allowed a remainer PM to be in charge of the most important negotiations since Ted Heath got us into this mess....and I voted NO then.

Ok gather round everyone, Zyphers is going to explain how he's going to manage the Irish/UK border without pissing off the republicans or unionists and avoid civil war.

Czarcasm wrote:

What’s alarming is this whole sorry mess is almost certain to see the country soon to be led by Jeremy Corbyn. A state of play that could prove catastrophic jobs-wise for a military city such as Plymouth.

I've found it extremely amusing how so many folk have suddenly complained about the brexit project fear thing, which certainly does exist, is somehow a new phenomena in political matters. They've never complained of the Project Fear thing before, as Czarky clearly reminds us, whenever the possibility of a left of centre government hoves into view. Still, unlike the brexit vote, you can always vote again in 5 years time to save Blighty and reverse the inevitable gratuitous annihilation of the Muff dockyard by a dastardly "Reds uder the bed" Labour government They're clearly all witches !!

Hugh Watt wrote:

zyph wrote:

Sorry Beezy.....didn't seem to post first time.

No back stop needed for my view....when I voted two years back I meant out completely. I can't believe that we've allowed a remainer PM to be in charge of the most important negotiations since Ted Heath got us into this mess....and I voted NO then.

Ok gather round everyone, Zyphers is going to explain how he's going to manage the Irish/UK border without pissing off the republicans or unionists and avoid civil war.

For the ignorance amongst us (that includes me) I watched and listened a reporter on morning TV today, who was in a village on the border, traffic was passing by as normal and I just wondered why anything needs to change, why are we talking about a hard, soft or whatever border, if leaving day was tomorrow are our Irish friends all of a sudden going to become so dodgy ?
I suppose the answer is the depth of mire and EU legislation that successive UK governments have allowed us to be dragged into and can potentially place the Good Friday agreement at risk.

Czarcasm wrote:

zyph wrote:

Sorry Beezy.....didn't seem to post first time.

No back stop needed for my view....when I voted two years back I meant out completely. I can't believe that we've allowed a remainer PM to be in charge of the most important negotiations since Ted Heath got us into this mess....and I voted NO then.

This is the problem. May’s ambitions to become PM totally usurped her Remain vote.

What’s alarming is this whole sorry mess is almost certain to see the country soon to be led by Jeremy Corbyn. A state of play that could prove catastrophic jobs-wise for a military city such as Plymouth.

Don’t worry if the nightmare of a Corbyn government happens, all the non labour types have to do is demand another general election, because democracy is dying a death with the Parliamentarians treat the referendum result with disdain, a result delivered by the unwashed peasants.

It's unsolvable to be honest.....Oliver Cromwell didn't like Catholic's and caused a spot of bother to keep them under the rule of Parliament.

Two (un)solutions.

1.....Unification of Ireland....not acceptable by Ulster protestants.

2.....Eire leaving the EU.....which as a small member they benefit from... (then no EU border to contend with).

But in the 70's when a grinning Ted Heath signed the charter none of this was known.

Although at the time he joined the EEC a trading group of countries...but Maastricht changed all that.

Angela Merkel's replacement has already mentioned the way ahead is more central control from Brussels and a unified military force....which all means a loss of individual Sovereignties and eventually the United States of Europe (USE).

BUT.....voting OUT still means complete severing of ties to the EU....financially and certainly not overseen by The European Court of Justice.

Theresa May has tried her best....but she is a remainer and her original Brexit Minister David Davies was no better than a wet sponge....over two years completely wasted without strong exiting strategy....the EU negotiators couldn't have picked a better team to play against if they had chosen our team for us.

A weak Government and an even weaker opposition at present....politics doesn't seem to be on the agenda as a career move these days.

Graiser wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

zyph wrote:

Sorry Beezy.....didn't seem to post first time.

No back stop needed for my view....when I voted two years back I meant out completely. I can't believe that we've allowed a remainer PM to be in charge of the most important negotiations since Ted Heath got us into this mess....and I voted NO then.

Ok gather round everyone, Zyphers is going to explain how he's going to manage the Irish/UK border without pissing off the republicans or unionists and avoid civil war.

For the ignorance  amongst us (that includes me) I watched and listened a reporter on morning TV today, who was in a village on the border, traffic was passing by as normal and I just wondered why anything needs to change, why are we talking about a hard, soft or whatever border, if leaving day was tomorrow are our Irish friends all of a sudden going to become so dodgy ?
I suppose the answer is the depth of mire and EU legislation that successive UK governments have allowed us to be dragged into and can potentially place the Good Friday agreement at risk.

I'd have thought that was fairly obvious; the Republic of Ireland is in the EU and Northern Ireland which as part of the UK is about to leave the EU.

The Good Friday agreement offered a choice of nationality to the citizens of Northern Ireland based on self identification, holding that the majority wanted to remain within the UK but a significant minority wanted to be part of a united Ireland whilst accepting both the legitimacy of both views. If we left with no deal, the North and South would create a land border between the UK and EU and border checks would be needed for goods flowing between the two.

The reason for the backstop is because of Theresa Mays intransigence on freedom of movement, because she ruled out being part of the single market, the EU insisted that a last resort agreement be put in place to ensure that goods can move freely by keeping the North within the same standards and regulatory orbit as the EU.

The trouble is the DUP do not want to be in a seperate customs relationship to the UK, nor should any leader of the "Conservative and Union Party" allow for a break up of the Union. So for that to happen Theresa May insisted on a UK wide customs backstop which is why the majority of her party cannot vote for.

Graiser wrote:

Czarcasm wrote:

zyph wrote:

Sorry Beezy.....didn't seem to post first time.

No back stop needed for my view....when I voted two years back I meant out completely. I can't believe that we've allowed a remainer PM to be in charge of the most important negotiations since Ted Heath got us into this mess....and I voted NO then.

This is the problem. May’s ambitions to become PM totally usurped her Remain vote.

What’s alarming is this whole sorry mess is almost certain to see the country soon to be led by Jeremy Corbyn. A state of play that could prove catastrophic jobs-wise for a military city such as Plymouth.

Don’t worry if the nightmare of a Corbyn government happens, all the non labour types have to do is demand another general election, because democracy is dying a death with the Parliamentarians treat the referendum result with disdain, a result delivered by the unwashed peasants.

Fix term parliament act would prevent that from happening.

The last civil war in this country was due to the monarchist establishment taking no notice of the elected parliament. In those days, of course, the electorate weren't the great unwashed, but  the new money merchant class. The King wanted to wage war with Europe on a whim, the merchants wanted to trade with Europe. Not much changed really. Us great unwashed levellers and diggers had their own gripes and still do to this day, with still no real representation in parliament.
Maybe we'll have to have another civil war. That'll clear the air.  A bit like a fixed term 50 year vote, but a proper vote with your feet.

Hugh Watt wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Hugh Watt wrote:

zyph wrote:

Sorry Beezy.....didn't seem to post first time.

No back stop needed for my view....when I voted two years back I meant out completely. I can't believe that we've allowed a remainer PM to be in charge of the most important negotiations since Ted Heath got us into this mess....and I voted NO then.

Ok gather round everyone, Zyphers is going to explain how he's going to manage the Irish/UK border without pissing off the republicans or unionists and avoid civil war.

For the ignorance  amongst us (that includes me) I watched and listened a reporter on morning TV today, who was in a village on the border, traffic was passing by as normal and I just wondered why anything needs to change, why are we talking about a hard, soft or whatever border, if leaving day was tomorrow are our Irish friends all of a sudden going to become so dodgy ?
I suppose the answer is the depth of mire and EU legislation that successive UK governments have allowed us to be dragged into and can potentially place the Good Friday agreement at risk.

I'd have thought that was fairly obvious; the Republic of Ireland is in the EU and Northern Ireland which as part of the UK is about to leave the EU.

The Good Friday agreement offered a choice of nationality to the citizens of Northern Ireland based on self identification, holding that the majority wanted to remain within the UK but a significant minority wanted to be part of a united Ireland whilst accepting both the legitimacy of both views. If we left with no deal, the North and South would create a land border between the UK and EU and border checks would be needed for goods flowing between the two.

The reason for the backstop is because of Theresa Mays intransigence on freedom of movement, because she ruled out being part of the single market, the EU insisted that a last resort agreement be put in place to ensure that goods can move freely by keeping the North within the same standards and regulatory orbit as the EU.

The trouble is the DUP do not want to be in a seperate customs relationship to the UK, nor should any leader of the "Conservative and Union Party" allow for a break up of the Union. So for that to happen Theresa May insisted on a UK wide customs backstop which is why the majority of her party cannot vote for.

I understood the politics Hugh but to me it’s playground politics, with common sense applied (agreed there’s not much of that around) nothing need change.

The Government has committed to ending freedom of movement, so unless you mean revokation of artcile 50 something clearly has to change