Plymouth Argyle 15:00 Sunderland

Grovehill wrote:

As Freathy said, Argyle didn't earn promotion under Lowe, it was awarded based on results over a part of the season. If we had Played ECFC and drawn, we wouldn't have been promoted

Results this season have borne out just how lucky we were.

But if we'd have played them and won, we would have been champions.

Clearly, the last part of this season has been disappointing to say the least, but the key thing is we stayed in League 1, with a young, inexperienced team and and young, inexperienced manager. I don't know what everyone's expectations were at the start of the season, mine were a mid table finish, perhaps hovering around the play offs, which for a time we were, but a couple of poor runs put paid to that. We've been nowhere near the bottom 4 all season so we've comfortably avoided relegation.

Lowe will have learned a lot about life in League 1, and has said he knows what's needed, so we'll see what happens. We have some good quality players at this level. Danny Mayor would be in most L1 teams, Conor Grant is a quality player, Ennis was a great signing, Camara is great going forward (needs work defensively though), Cooper is a great young keeper, Edwards is a good solid pro. Defensively, we've got worse as the season went on, and it's odd that Aimson has got better and better.

There will always be those who cry for the manager to leave when we don't do as well as we think we should, but bear in mind we are in a long term project, The Chairman and the Manager are in it together, and certainly Lowe deserves one more season at least to get us further up the table and challenging for promotion.

The Lowe out brigade will carry on on saying the same things from day 1 next season, and it will be interesting to see if they eat their words if he gets us up there towards the top. Probably not.

I think he will have learned from this season, we'll be stronger defensively and we'll do much better.

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Grovehill wrote:

As Freathy said, Argyle didn't earn promotion under Lowe, it was awarded based on results over a part of the season. If we had Played ECFC and drawn, we wouldn't have been promoted

Results this season have borne out just how lucky we were.

But if we'd have played them and won, we would have been champions.  

Clearly, the last part of this season has been disappointing to say the least, but the key thing is we stayed in League 1, with a young, inexperienced team and and young, inexperienced manager. I don't know what everyone's expectations were at the start of the season, mine were a mid table finish, perhaps hovering around the play offs, which for a time we were, but a couple of poor runs put paid to that. We've been nowhere near the bottom 4 all season so we've comfortably avoided relegation.

Lowe will have learned a lot about life in League 1, and has said he knows what's needed, so we'll see what happens. We have some good quality players at this level. Danny Mayor would be in most L1 teams, Conor Grant is a quality player, Ennis was a great signing, Camara is great going forward (needs work defensively though), Cooper is a great young keeper, Edwards is a good solid pro. Defensively, we've got worse as the season went on, and it's odd that Aimson has got better and better.

There will always be those who cry for the manager to leave when we don't do as well as we think we should, but bear in mind we are in a long term project, The Chairman and the Manager are in it together, and certainly Lowe deserves one more season at least to get us further up the table and challenging for promotion.

The Lowe out brigade will carry on on saying the same things from day 1 next season, and it will be interesting to see if they eat their words if he gets us up there towards the top. Probably not.

I think he will have learned from this season, we'll be stronger defensively and we'll do much better.

i dont know if it was heard over the argyle commentary feed on ifollow but on the sunderland one where there was no comms you could hear ryan angrily berate camara for causing Opoku's sending off as it came from the result of his sloppy passing that jerome had to react quickly too which brought about the foul.
i agree he needs work on his defensive playing alot of his recent performances havent been anything to write home about whether hes one of those who doesnt give a shit or ramadan fasting is effecting his performances more than normal i dont know but when he is on form he is great to watch and have in a team.

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Grovehill wrote:

As Freathy said, Argyle didn't earn promotion under Lowe, it was awarded based on results over a part of the season. If we had Played ECFC and drawn, we wouldn't have been promoted

Results this season have borne out just how lucky we were.

But if we'd have played them and won, we would have been champions.  

Clearly, the last part of this season has been disappointing to say the least, but the key thing is we stayed in League 1, with a young, inexperienced team and and young, inexperienced manager. I don't know what everyone's expectations were at the start of the season, mine were a mid table finish, perhaps hovering around the play offs, which for a time we were, but a couple of poor runs put paid to that. We've been nowhere near the bottom 4 all season so we've comfortably avoided relegation.

Lowe will have learned a lot about life in League 1, and has said he knows what's needed, so we'll see what happens. We have some good quality players at this level. Danny Mayor would be in most L1 teams, Conor Grant is a quality player, Ennis was a great signing, Camara is great going forward (needs work defensively though), Cooper is a great young keeper, Edwards is a good solid pro. Defensively, we've got worse as the season went on, and it's odd that Aimson has got better and better.

There will always be those who cry for the manager to leave when we don't do as well as we think we should, but bear in mind we are in a long term project, The Chairman and the Manager are in it together, and certainly Lowe deserves one more season at least to get us further up the table and challenging for promotion.

The Lowe out brigade will carry on on saying the same things from day 1 next season, and it will be interesting to see if they eat their words if he gets us up there towards the top. Probably not.

I think he will have learned from this season, we'll be stronger defensively and we'll do much better.

How the team has performed this season suggests that last season's promotion was not fully merited.

You say Lowe will have learned a lot about L1, but then remark on the poor end to the season? You say we have good quality players at this level, but has any player consistently put in strong performances. I'd also be very surprised if any of the out of contract players including those you mention attract interest from Clubs above L2 level.

Accepting mediocrity merely perpetuates the "same old Argyle" view of the Club

Grovehill wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Grovehill wrote:

As Freathy said, Argyle didn't earn promotion under Lowe, it was awarded based on results over a part of the season. If we had Played ECFC and drawn, we wouldn't have been promoted

Results this season have borne out just how lucky we were.

But if we'd have played them and won, we would have been champions.  

Clearly, the last part of this season has been disappointing to say the least, but the key thing is we stayed in League 1, with a young, inexperienced team and and young, inexperienced manager. I don't know what everyone's expectations were at the start of the season, mine were a mid table finish, perhaps hovering around the play offs, which for a time we were, but a couple of poor runs put paid to that. We've been nowhere near the bottom 4 all season so we've comfortably avoided relegation.

Lowe will have learned a lot about life in League 1, and has said he knows what's needed, so we'll see what happens. We have some good quality players at this level. Danny Mayor would be in most L1 teams, Conor Grant is a quality player, Ennis was a great signing, Camara is great going forward (needs work defensively though), Cooper is a great young keeper, Edwards is a good solid pro. Defensively, we've got worse as the season went on, and it's odd that Aimson has got better and better.

There will always be those who cry for the manager to leave when we don't do as well as we think we should, but bear in mind we are in a long term project, The Chairman and the Manager are in it together, and certainly Lowe deserves one more season at least to get us further up the table and challenging for promotion.

The Lowe out brigade will carry on on saying the same things from day 1 next season, and it will be interesting to see if they eat their words if he gets us up there towards the top. Probably not.

I think he will have learned from this season, we'll be stronger defensively and we'll do much better.

How the team has performed this season suggests that last season's promotion was not fully merited.

You say Lowe will have learned a lot about L1, but then remark on the poor end to the season? You say we have good quality players at this level, but has any player consistently put in strong performances. I'd also be very surprised if any of the out of contract players including those you mention attract interest from Clubs above L2 level.

Accepting mediocrity merely perpetuates the "same old Argyle" view of the Club

So, you equate one season in a lower division with one season in a higher division and come to the conclusion that the promotion wasn't merited? Strange logic, particularly as we stayed in the higher division quite comfortably.

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Grovehill wrote:

As Freathy said, Argyle didn't earn promotion under Lowe, it was awarded based on results over a part of the season. If we had Played ECFC and drawn, we wouldn't have been promoted

Results this season have borne out just how lucky we were.

But if we'd have played them and won, we would have been champions.  

Clearly, the last part of this season has been disappointing to say the least, but the key thing is we stayed in League 1, with a young, inexperienced team and and young, inexperienced manager. I don't know what everyone's expectations were at the start of the season, mine were a mid table finish, perhaps hovering around the play offs, which for a time we were, but a couple of poor runs put paid to that. We've been nowhere near the bottom 4 all season so we've comfortably avoided relegation.

Lowe will have learned a lot about life in League 1, and has said he knows what's needed, so we'll see what happens. We have some good quality players at this level. Danny Mayor would be in most L1 teams, Conor Grant is a quality player, Ennis was a great signing, Camara is great going forward (needs work defensively though), Cooper is a great young keeper, Edwards is a good solid pro. Defensively, we've got worse as the season went on, and it's odd that Aimson has got better and better.

There will always be those who cry for the manager to leave when we don't do as well as we think we should, but bear in mind we are in a long term project, The Chairman and the Manager are in it together, and certainly Lowe deserves one more season at least to get us further up the table and challenging for promotion.

The Lowe out brigade will carry on on saying the same things from day 1 next season, and it will be interesting to see if they eat their words if he gets us up there towards the top. Probably not.

I think he will have learned from this season, we'll be stronger defensively and we'll do much better.

I would agree with your expectations of the first season in lge 1 and I predicted a slightly higher finish than we got but that isn't why I have joined the "Lowe out brigade" is because I think he's lost the dressing room and we have no more of a core of a squad than we had last year. I'll happily admit it if I'm wrong but I've got a very foreboding feeling about next season as I've simply lost confidence in Lowe as the team he's got just isn't playing for him.

Earwegoagain wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Grovehill wrote:

As Freathy said, Argyle didn't earn promotion under Lowe, it was awarded based on results over a part of the season. If we had Played ECFC and drawn, we wouldn't have been promoted

Results this season have borne out just how lucky we were.

But if we'd have played them and won, we would have been champions.  

Clearly, the last part of this season has been disappointing to say the least, but the key thing is we stayed in League 1, with a young, inexperienced team and and young, inexperienced manager. I don't know what everyone's expectations were at the start of the season, mine were a mid table finish, perhaps hovering around the play offs, which for a time we were, but a couple of poor runs put paid to that. We've been nowhere near the bottom 4 all season so we've comfortably avoided relegation.

Lowe will have learned a lot about life in League 1, and has said he knows what's needed, so we'll see what happens. We have some good quality players at this level. Danny Mayor would be in most L1 teams, Conor Grant is a quality player, Ennis was a great signing, Camara is great going forward (needs work defensively though), Cooper is a great young keeper, Edwards is a good solid pro. Defensively, we've got worse as the season went on, and it's odd that Aimson has got better and better.

There will always be those who cry for the manager to leave when we don't do as well as we think we should, but bear in mind we are in a long term project, The Chairman and the Manager are in it together, and certainly Lowe deserves one more season at least to get us further up the table and challenging for promotion.

The Lowe out brigade will carry on on saying the same things from day 1 next season, and it will be interesting to see if they eat their words if he gets us up there towards the top. Probably not.

I think he will have learned from this season, we'll be stronger defensively and we'll do much better.

I would agree with your expectations of the first season in lge 1 and I predicted a slightly higher finish than we got but that isn't why I have joined the "Lowe out brigade" is because I think he's lost the dressing room and we have no more of a core of a squad than we had last year. I'll happily admit it if I'm wrong but I've got a very foreboding feeling about next season as I've simply lost confidence in Lowe as the team he's got just isn't playing for him.

I agree Lowe has lost the dressing room, the team are displaying all the symptoms of that. It's not a case of we haven't done well as we think we should, it's that this season we've regularly been subjected to some of the worst performances and results I can ever remember. That should be enough for any Chairman to act and sack the manager. And will the Lowe lovers also eat their words if we're hovering around the bottom 4 in the spring of 2022?

Freathy wrote:

Earwegoagain wrote:

PlymptonPilgrim wrote:

Grovehill wrote:

As Freathy said, Argyle didn't earn promotion under Lowe, it was awarded based on results over a part of the season. If we had Played ECFC and drawn, we wouldn't have been promoted

Results this season have borne out just how lucky we were.

But if we'd have played them and won, we would have been champions.  

Clearly, the last part of this season has been disappointing to say the least, but the key thing is we stayed in League 1, with a young, inexperienced team and and young, inexperienced manager. I don't know what everyone's expectations were at the start of the season, mine were a mid table finish, perhaps hovering around the play offs, which for a time we were, but a couple of poor runs put paid to that. We've been nowhere near the bottom 4 all season so we've comfortably avoided relegation.

Lowe will have learned a lot about life in League 1, and has said he knows what's needed, so we'll see what happens. We have some good quality players at this level. Danny Mayor would be in most L1 teams, Conor Grant is a quality player, Ennis was a great signing, Camara is great going forward (needs work defensively though), Cooper is a great young keeper, Edwards is a good solid pro. Defensively, we've got worse as the season went on, and it's odd that Aimson has got better and better.

There will always be those who cry for the manager to leave when we don't do as well as we think we should, but bear in mind we are in a long term project, The Chairman and the Manager are in it together, and certainly Lowe deserves one more season at least to get us further up the table and challenging for promotion.

The Lowe out brigade will carry on on saying the same things from day 1 next season, and it will be interesting to see if they eat their words if he gets us up there towards the top. Probably not.

I think he will have learned from this season, we'll be stronger defensively and we'll do much better.

I would agree with your expectations of the first season in lge 1 and I predicted a slightly higher finish than we got but that isn't why I have joined the "Lowe out brigade" is because I think he's lost the dressing room and we have no more of a core of a squad than we had last year. I'll happily admit it if I'm wrong but I've got a very foreboding feeling about next season as I've simply lost confidence in Lowe as the team he's got just isn't playing for him.

I agree Lowe has lost the dressing room, the team are displaying all the symptoms of that. It's not a case of we haven't done well as we think we should, it's that this season we've regularly been subjected to some of the worst performances and results I can ever remember.   That should be enough for any Chairman to act and sack the manager.  And will the Lowe lovers also eat their words if we're hovering around the bottom 4 in the spring of 2022?

I expect we will, however I doubt you’ll change your views if we’re in the playoffs next May.

Who of the happy clappies is going to claim theres no alternative to Ryan, like they said when there was supposedly no alternative to Jimmy ?

Freathy wrote:

I agree Lowe has lost the dressing room, the team are displaying all the symptoms of that.

Thanks Freathy... That statement agreeing with Earwiggy, almost guarantees that the squad to a man, is firmly behind Lowe!

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

Who of the happy clappies is going to claim theres no alternative to Ryan, like they said when there was supposedly no alternative to Jimmy ?

You mean those who think Lowe should be given more time, well yes there are alternatives trouble is most of them are employed, I suppose Mourinho is available so no compo to pay.

Rickler wrote:

Freathy wrote:

I agree Lowe has lost the dressing room, the team are displaying all the symptoms of that.

Thanks Freathy...  That statement agreeing with Earwiggy, almost guarantees that the squad to a man, is firmly behind Lowe!

If this is a team playing for their manager I'd hate to see the scorelines when it does happen. What do you reckon is the cause of these performances? Lowes coaching ability? Lowes tactics? Lowes player recruitment and or selection? I mean if the team are playing for him one of those has to be the answer doesn't it?

No.

Graiser wrote:

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

Who of the happy clappies is going to claim theres no alternative to Ryan, like they said when there was supposedly no alternative to Jimmy ?

You mean those who think Lowe should be given more time, well yes there are alternatives trouble is most of them are employed, I suppose Mourinho is available so no compo to pay.

Biggest gripe i have with those who say "give him more" time when a manager is under performing is they never set a deadline for themselves which if results and performances haven't improved by then they realize its time to admit its time he was moved on. We saw this with Sturrock mark 2, del bhey and strangely enough Fletcher that no matter how bad the results and performances where for a prolonged period of time they still had fans blindly backing them expressing give them more time refusing to admit defeat so to speak till its too late to stop the damage being caused thankfully John Sheridan managed to save us by the skin of his teeth when he took over from Fletcher.

In regards to Ryan atm it is early in the day to call for his head despite how bad we have played and some terrible results this season he still achieved the primary objective and kept us up with over 50 points so he has done a good job on paper this season same as Bobby Williamson did in the championship he deserves the opportunity to improve now the rookie season in this league is finished.
With that said i am demanding from a Ryan Lowe managed Plymouth Argyle better performances and results next season mostly along with better range of  tactics and better players brought in if things don't improve by October he has to go as it would be crystal clear he isn't the manager to take us forward despite having everything he wants and more given to him to achieve that.

As for what SS68 said that argument is another gripe also because you don't know who wants the job till there is a job available just like you don't know who wants to buy your house till you put it up for sale.

I hope Hallett has considered the damage Lowe is doing to the support.  With crowds returning next season, this season is hardly going make the local potential support, especially the 'younger' potential supporters, think HP is the place to be next season.  Many will have seen the atrocious results this season and think their local club are just a pathetic joke comedy outfit who get mullered every week and lose 6-0 at home.

There have possibly been less talented argyle teams in the fifty years that i've be going, but there has never been one with less spirit or fight than this selection of surrender monkeys Lowe signed, the six nill home stuffing by midtable Charlton the worst result in sixty six years was the last straw for me. Lowe should be sacked if there is any shred of ambition at Homepark.

Rickler wrote:

No.

Care to elaborate? Love to know your opinion on why we are so shite?

Angry wrote:

Graiser wrote:

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

Who of the happy clappies is going to claim theres no alternative to Ryan, like they said when there was supposedly no alternative to Jimmy ?

You mean those who think Lowe should be given more time, well yes there are alternatives trouble is most of them are employed, I suppose Mourinho is available so no compo to pay.

Biggest gripe i have with those who say "give him more" time when a manager is under performing is they never set a deadline for themselves which if results and performances haven't improved by then they realize its time to admit its time he was moved on. We saw this with Sturrock mark 2, del bhey and strangely enough Fletcher that no matter how bad the results and performances where for a prolonged period of time they still had fans blindly backing them expressing give them more time refusing to admit defeat so to speak till its too late to stop the damage being caused thankfully John Sheridan managed to save us by the skin of his teeth when he took over from Fletcher.

In regards to Ryan atm it is early in the day to call for his head despite how bad we have played and some terrible results this season he still achieved the primary objective and kept us up with over 50 points so he has done a good job on paper this season same as Bobby Williamson did in the championship he deserves the opportunity to improve now the rookie season in this league is finished.
With that said i am demanding from a Ryan Lowe managed Plymouth Argyle better performances and results next season mostly along with better range of  tactics and better players brought in if things don't improve by October he has to go as it would be crystal clear he isn't the manager to take us forward despite having everything he wants and more given to him to achieve that.

As for what SS68 said that argument is another gripe also because you don't know who wants the job till there is a job available just like you don't know who wants to buy your house till you put it up for sale.

Can’t argue with any of that, there’s nothing like a balanced post to give some perspective

Angry wrote:

Graiser wrote:

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

Who of the happy clappies is going to claim theres no alternative to Ryan, like they said when there was supposedly no alternative to Jimmy ?

You mean those who think Lowe should be given more time, well yes there are alternatives trouble is most of them are employed, I suppose Mourinho is available so no compo to pay.

Biggest gripe i have with those who say "give him more" time when a manager is under performing is they never set a deadline for themselves which if results and performances haven't improved by then they realize its time to admit its time he was moved on. We saw this with Sturrock mark 2, del bhey and strangely enough Fletcher that no matter how bad the results and performances where for a prolonged period of time they still had fans blindly backing them expressing give them more time refusing to admit defeat so to speak till its too late to stop the damage being caused thankfully John Sheridan managed to save us by the skin of his teeth when he took over from Fletcher.

In regards to Ryan atm it is early in the day to call for his head despite how bad we have played and some terrible results this season he still achieved the primary objective and kept us up with over 50 points so he has done a good job on paper this season same as Bobby Williamson did in the championship he deserves the opportunity to improve now the rookie season in this league is finished.
With that said i am demanding from a Ryan Lowe managed Plymouth Argyle better performances and results next season mostly along with better range of  tactics and better players brought in if things don't improve by October he has to go as it would be crystal clear he isn't the manager to take us forward despite having everything he wants and more given to him to achieve that.

As for what SS68 said that argument is another gripe also because you don't know who wants the job till there is a job available just like you don't know who wants to buy your house till you put it up for sale.

What's the point of the October deadline we would have another Lowe team with no realistic way to change it until the following June as we never do anything other than a few loans in January. Too many fans declared him the next messiah two years ago and are too stubborn to change their opinions now despite the masssive ringing of alarm bells. We commit to Lowe and put up with him for another season or get rid now there are no easy options.

Earwegoagain wrote:

Angry wrote:

Graiser wrote:

sufferedsince 68 wrote:

Who of the happy clappies is going to claim theres no alternative to Ryan, like they said when there was supposedly no alternative to Jimmy ?

You mean those who think Lowe should be given more time, well yes there are alternatives trouble is most of them are employed, I suppose Mourinho is available so no compo to pay.

Biggest gripe i have with those who say "give him more" time when a manager is under performing is they never set a deadline for themselves which if results and performances haven't improved by then they realize its time to admit its time he was moved on. We saw this with Sturrock mark 2, del bhey and strangely enough Fletcher that no matter how bad the results and performances where for a prolonged period of time they still had fans blindly backing them expressing give them more time refusing to admit defeat so to speak till its too late to stop the damage being caused thankfully John Sheridan managed to save us by the skin of his teeth when he took over from Fletcher.

In regards to Ryan atm it is early in the day to call for his head despite how bad we have played and some terrible results this season he still achieved the primary objective and kept us up with over 50 points so he has done a good job on paper this season same as Bobby Williamson did in the championship he deserves the opportunity to improve now the rookie season in this league is finished.
With that said i am demanding from a Ryan Lowe managed Plymouth Argyle better performances and results next season mostly along with better range of  tactics and better players brought in if things don't improve by October he has to go as it would be crystal clear he isn't the manager to take us forward despite having everything he wants and more given to him to achieve that.

As for what SS68 said that argument is another gripe also because you don't know who wants the job till there is a job available just like you don't know who wants to buy your house till you put it up for sale.

What's the point of the October deadline we would have another Lowe team with no realistic way to change it until the following June as we never do anything other than a few loans in January. Too many fans declared him the next messiah two years ago and are too stubborn to change their opinions now despite the masssive ringing of alarm bells. We commit to Lowe and put up with him for another season or get rid now there are no easy options.

Because by October after the new blood has had time to settle and such we should know either way where our season is going around that point and if we have improved then great if nothing looks like its changing at all despite all the recruitment and such then we cut our loses then. October is ideal and its not too late for a new manager to get a grip of the squad he has inherited and look at what key areas he needs so he can bring them in January to improve our fortunes.

One thing is certain if Ryan is backed in the summer with an increased budget and nothing has changed there is no way the board will keep him on for too long. It wont be another Del Bhey situation where we wait too long hoping things change.

Lowe’s ethos was pretty clear last year and that was one of trying to simply outscore the opposition. They score 2, we’ll score 3 etc etc. Kevin Keegan-esque. And it’s great when it comes off.

But he (and his coaching team) simply don’t have the know-how to coach a defensive unit. That deficiency has been ably demonstrated this year.

What is also called into question is his ability to rate a defender. Giving contracts this season to Sawyer Wooton and Canavan rang alarm bells pretty loudly last summer. And it surprised absolutely no one when those three contract awards turned out to be glaring errors.

It’s admirable to try and play attractive attacking football. But ffs, when you defend like a southwestern league outfit, questions rightly need to be asked.

Get a dedicated knowledgeable defensive coach on the staff, and with half decent recruitment we may have a half decent year. If it’s left up to the same coaching team next season, then we are in big trouble.

Sadly, the stats of the last few games don't support the claims that Lowe & Co. are getting the team to play good attacking football. Argyle have been way behind the last few opponents in teams of forcing corners and getting shots in, the percentage of shots on target over the last few games have been between 10% & 20% which seems to be more "hit & hope" than well constructed attacking moves.

Of course, while everyone is intent on steaming forward, the opposition can have a field day directing counter attacks at the gaps left at the back.

When are the corners being built? FFS.

POI wrote:

When are the corners being built? FFS.

never is my guess especially the barn park mayflower one