Shot at Jimbo...?

Ken Adams wrote:

DA after match comments... mentioned that he was chasing Hallam Hope (Carlisle forward and scorer) but Argyle couldn't afford him. Outbid in the transfer market by Carlisle???? FFS Jimbo....really??? Today hopefully just a mere blip but very interesting comment from DA to reveal that in public. Coupled with his frustration at not being able (due to finances) to sign a GK a month or so ago its interesting to see him voice his frustration. This is the first time I have heard him publicly vent his annoyance.

I thought Hallam Hope was only on a one month loan from Bury.....not quite us being beaten by Carlisle in the transfer market.

SteelCannon wrote:

"Happiness....happiness!"

Someone is pleased we lost yesterday!

aS OTHERS HAVE ALREADY INDICATED THERE'S VERY FEW MANAGERS ABOUT [FIx Caps Lock] who wouldn't want an extra player or two and a bigger budget. On that basis it is quite easy to dismiss DA's words.

The problem we as fans have here is in assessing them. We don't know what our budget is, we don't know how much of it has been spent, we don't know what our income is. Brent's repeated failure to publish meaningful accounts for the club gives us nothing to go on and unlike DA's prodding, which is easy to dismiss, the nagging feeling that Brent is hiding something (because he's behaving exactly as somebody woud who was) just won't go away and is reinforced with every emergent snippet.

As for Quality v Quantity I am all for Quality. No point in having loads of benchwarmers who bring little to the team and it is very expensive. A waste of probably scant resources on every level. But we're back to budget yet again here. Is 11 Quality performers enough, how many is too many and how many do we have?

All that said Argyle (mean home attendance 7412 and 3rd in the division) being outbid by Carlisle (Av. 4376 and 10th) is worrying. The chasm between the two in terms of financial clout, even with the, quite frankly hackneyed, "historic debt" taken into account certainly suggests that one team is piling every possible available resource into the 1st XI and the other is not but with no proper published accounts who knows?

I suppose it could be argued Hallam Hope's wage demands would've been higher signing for Argyle than many of our rivals given our location.  It wont take away the fact I'm happy to have a manager who will challenge the board for more.  The reluctance from Jimmy to sign up what DA believes to be a decent back-up keeper speaks volumes for what he's up against.  We're still seemingly operating as a mid-table club where dropping a point or three is irrelevant. After making a small profit last season, if Jimmy is unable or unwilling to loosen the purse strings a little for what is clearly a great chance of promotion then he has no business being here.

Freathy wrote:

DA is as good as gone.  Losing players and having to scrape around for loan signings because we have no money in January will make it VERY easy for DA to be tempted away, maybe even to another L2 club.

We will not be promoted

BRENT OUT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahhh, you crack me up Freathers. Keep up the optimism old bean. It makes me smile.

Rollo Tomasi wrote:

Adams is clearly flexing his muscles and if he can't do it now then he never will. He is in a position of strength which may not last.

The size of the squad is the worry. The starting eleven is as good as any in this league plus two or three subs but the rest are making up the numbers.

If, or more likely when, injuries, suspensions or forced sales come into play then we are struggling.

Adams has gone for quality over quantity. It's a high risk strategy.

It was the same last season under Sheridan too has a strong 11 but not alot after that. It cost us promotion last season and it will this season too.

only one man top blame for it and that the reluctant one that is still be hailed a hero by idiots who refuse to see reality.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

aS OTHERS HAVE ALREADY INDICATED THERE'S VERY FEW MANAGERS ABOUT [FIx Caps Lock] who wouldn't want an extra player or two and a bigger budget. On that basis it is quite easy to dismiss DA's words.

The problem we as fans have here is in assessing them. We don't know what our budget is, we don't know how much of it has been spent, we don't know what our income is. Brent's repeated failure to publish meaningful accounts for the club gives us nothing to go on and unlike DA's prodding, which is easy to dismiss, the nagging feeling that Brent is hiding something (because he's behaving exactly as somebody woud who was) just won't go away and is reinforced with every emergent snippet.

As for Quality v Quantity I am all for Quality. No point in having loads of benchwarmers who bring little to the team and it is very expensive. A waste of probably scant resources on every level. But we're back to budget yet again here. Is 11 Quality performers enough, how many is too many and how many do we have?

All that said Argyle (mean home attendance 7412 and 3rd in the division) being outbid by Carlisle (Av. 4376 and 10th) is worrying. The chasm between the two in terms of financial clout, even with the, quite frankly hackneyed, "historic debt" taken into account certainly suggests that one team is piling every possible available resource into the 1st XI and the other is not but with no proper published accounts who knows?

Fans have been shit on for a good few years now Franny. Losing them is easy. Winning their hearts and minds back through those turnstiles is a tough ask, as we're now seeing. Historic stats show our gates improve after xmas if we're doing well. Let's hope that trend continues.

Gary Nevile, leave non league Salford, and rescue non league Plymouth Argyle from Posh Jimmy!

P'raps DA knows that spending now means less in Jan which is, after all, a very important month. So comments of ''couldn't afford'' was possibly based on the pot of cash available beween now and Feb.
If JB wants to sell then he knows the value will rise after promotion.
As for clubs eyeing up DA? He hasn't yet won anything in England and if you think that struggling Lge 1 or Champ clubs would be attracted then remember that over the last 5 years the managers of teams in the top 3 have not, in general, been enticed away. Those that were Nigel Clough (albeit from Burton in Conf) and Gary Rowett have not done that well. Luggy at Saints is another prime example of a manager jumping up the leagues (albeit some of that was player power). DA's CV shows a fantastic job in Scotland with Ross County but, so far, nothing in England.

tigertony wrote:

P'raps DA knows that spending now means less in Jan which is, after all, a very important month. So comments of ''couldn't afford'' was possibly based on the pot of cash available beween now and Feb.
If JB wants to sell then he knows the value will rise after promotion.
As for clubs eyeing up DA? He hasn't yet won anything in England and if you think that struggling Lge 1 or Champ clubs would be attracted then remember that over the last 5 years the managers of teams in the top 3 have not, in general, been enticed away. Those that were Nigel Clough (albeit from Burton in Conf) and Gary Rowett have not done that well. Luggy at Saints is another prime example of a manager jumping up the leagues (albeit some of that was player power). DA's CV shows a fantastic job in Scotland with Ross County but, so far, nothing in England.

Mmmm.Taking over a disater outfit at Birmingham,comfortably avoiding relegation and then mounting a realistic promotion campaign the season after doesn't really look that bad from this angle.

Cloughie didn't do too bad at Sheff U either, Tone, you appear determined to defend the indefensible, or at the very least play devils advocate.

DA's management style is a breath of fresh air compared to what we've been used to since Holloway left. He'll explain alsorts including tactics & his decision making during a game as well as budget constraints. He is something different and we're lucky to have him. It'd be naive to suggest others aren't watching.

Why's everyone asking about the budget?

Like all the rest of the teams in this Division it should be 55% of the income-so, as one of the best supported teams, PAFC should have plenty of spending power (for this division)

If not where's the money going?


The bigger question is (and has been for years) where's the money coming to clear the FC debt?

I can't see JB using his own money, so I suspect that he's touting the club to prospective buyers even as we read this

Grovehill wrote:

Why's everyone asking about the budget?

Like all the rest of the teams in this Division it should be 55% of the income-so, as one of the best supported teams, PAFC should have plenty of spending power (for this division)

If not where's the money going?


The bigger question is (and has been for years) where's the money coming to clear the FC debt?

I can't see JB using his own money, so I suspect that he's touting the club to prospective buyers even as we read this

We can but dream.

Grovehill wrote:

Why's everyone asking about the budget?

Like all the rest of the teams in this Division it should be 55% of the income-so, as one of the best supported teams, PAFC should have plenty of spending power (for this division)

If not where's the money going?


The bigger question is (and has been for years) where's the money coming to clear the FC debt?

I can't see JB using his own money, so I suspect that he's touting the club to prospective buyers even as we read this

The club is paying off the historic debt. That has always been the case and nobody suggested it has ever been any different. The very notion that Brent would use his own money is laughable.

Greenskin wrote:

tigertony wrote:

P'raps DA knows that spending now means less in Jan which is, after all, a very important month. So comments of ''couldn't afford'' was possibly based on the pot of cash available beween now and Feb.
If JB wants to sell then he knows the value will rise after promotion.
As for clubs eyeing up DA? He hasn't yet won anything in England and if you think that struggling Lge 1 or Champ clubs would be attracted then remember that over the last 5 years the managers of teams in the top 3 have not, in general, been enticed away. Those that were Nigel Clough (albeit from Burton in Conf) and Gary Rowett have not done that well. Luggy at Saints is another prime example of a manager jumping up the leagues (albeit some of that was player power). DA's CV shows a fantastic job in Scotland with Ross County but, so far, nothing in England.

Mmmm.Taking over a disater outfit at Birmingham,comfortably avoiding relegation and then mounting a realistic promotion campaign the season after doesn't really look that bad from this angle.

I was just about to jump on that comment, but see someone else has. Rowett has done pretty bloody well at Birmingham. If you saw their team which played Argyle in the Capital One Cup, it was ordinary, and they stayed up only due to a last minute goal on the last game of the season.

Rowett has come in and made them a competitive side again in not long at all. They are currently 6 points off top of the league which is considerably better than what they were doing under Lee Clark.

Here's a bit of reading on the side Rowett inherited: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Failed punt on a lower league manager? Rowett is not exactly an example of that.

Sir Francis Drake wrote:

The club is paying off the historic debt. That has always been the case and nobody suggested it has ever been any different. The very notion that Brent would use his own money is laughable.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're as head in the sand as the Pasoti boys, it's the amount being paid off that is interesting and potentially really unpopular.
The public headline is paying down the employees, but no mention whatsoever of paying interest and maybe even debt to Todd, Gardner and co.
And not only that, as we know only too well, the modern football owners legally dip into the till with the modern day accounting and large sums involved. Owners even buy clubs like Manchester with their own money. I bet Brent's learnt a thing or two there.

It's not like the old days. Owners expect to charge the club for all sorts of management services, and charge them big. What about that £5m that Todd and his lounge lizards booked in as other expenses of running a football club ? They were paid off regularly before admin loomed. It's executive practice these days, and totally legal. Great work if you can get it. It's a wide open goal, especially when they don't contribute to the old fashioned idea of vulnerable share capital.
The football wild west used to be brown envelopes and manager/player scams, now it's an executive feeding frenzy.

Wow what a frenzy on here after losing a match! The budget's been mentioned many times on here as being too low, so can those who make those statements let us know what DA's budget is please ?
Then perhaps we can all make a measured judgement.

I'm no Brent apologist, he's delivered on some issues and not delivered on many.

Is he trying to sell the club ? most probably - at a profit - most definitely, what businessman wouldn't, would I like a new owner with plenty of dosh - yes please - are we going to get one - buggered if I know, haven't seen Dawson or some Arab knocking on on our Art Deco entrance, has anybody else ?

Maybe if there was some neutral thinking, it could be perhaps be something simple that the budget issue is dominated by the 55% and the fact that Argyle's FY is January to December, which could release funding in January the start of a new FY, just a thought.

Back to reality, it was one game lost, bit of a bugger I know, but we are a good team, yesterday was a bad day at the office

Graiser wrote:

Wow what a frenzy on here after losing a match! The budget's been mentioned many times on here as being too low, so can those who make those statements let us know what DA's budget is please ?
Then perhaps we can all make a measured judgement.

I'm no Brent apologist, he's delivered on some issues and not delivered on many.

Is he trying to sell the club ? most probably - at a profit - most definitely, what businessman wouldn't, would I like a new owner with plenty of dosh - yes please - are we going to get one - buggered if I know, haven't seen Dawson or some Arab knocking on on our Art Deco entrance, has anybody else ?

Maybe if there was some neutral thinking, it could be perhaps be something simple that the budget issue is dominated by the 55% and the fact that Argyle's FY is January to December, which could release funding in January the start of a new FY, just a thought.

Back to reality, it was one game lost, bit of a bugger I know, but we are a good team, yesterday was a bad day at the office

what has he delivered on?

I agree with most of what Graiser wrote, but for, what has he delivered on?

PAFC is still here and that's about it.

Graiser wrote:

Wow what a frenzy on here after losing a match! The budget's been mentioned many times on here as being too low, so can those who make those statements let us know what DA's budget is please ?
Then perhaps we can all make a measured judgement.

I'm no Brent apologist, he's delivered on some issues and not delivered on many.

Is he trying to sell the club ? most probably - at a profit - most definitely, what businessman wouldn't, would I like a new owner with plenty of dosh - yes please - are we going to get one - buggered if I know, haven't seen Dawson or some Arab knocking on on our Art Deco entrance, has anybody else ?

Maybe if there was some neutral thinking, it could be perhaps be something simple that the budget issue is dominated by the 55% and the fact that Argyle's FY is January to December, which could release funding in January the start of a new FY, just a thought.

Back to reality, it was one game lost, bit of a bugger I know, but we are a good team, yesterday was a bad day at the office

Did Adams not make some comment at a supporters meeting that the budget was the 10-15th largest in the division? Fairly obviously in the absence of any detailed accounting information being published, then nobody can say the exact amount of money allocated to DA. But his comment yesterday would seem to indicate that Argyle are not competing with Carlisle, who would also be affected by the 55% rule. There would also be the lack of a reserve goalkeeper, which i'm also fairly sure that DA stated was a funding issue as well. For sure it was only one game but it's a damned long season and injuries and suspensions are bound to stack up on the way-I don't think anyone has said that Argyle aren't a good team, it's the back up to cover absences and create real competition for places that worries many people and did so long before yesterday.

Graiser wrote:

Wow what a frenzy on here after losing a match!

What are you talking about Graiser ? Much of the comment on here, especially my own, is the same comment since Brent rocked up, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with losing one match. Some you win, some you lose. No big deal. This isn't Aviva land, no one is asking for Adams' head.
Maybe you're just off on your own particular horse. Discussing the budget has nothing to do with losing one match. Argyle are five points clear, with the best manager since Holloway, and the best player since Nallis or Hayles.
One fly in the ointment is Reid. The injury that conveniently flared up just after the Portsmouth approach thing is beginning to ring alarm bells in my head. It's been long enough now to smell. Adams did the only thing he could regarding their manager's comments, by inferring perhaps it could be somewhat illegal, or not, depending on whether you're a member of the IAAF or no

He did make that comment based on what facts we don't know, look I know our squads a bit threadbare but DA has seen fit to bring in some quality players on I suspect decent salaries and we've all enjoyed watching them, but you pays your money and makes your choice which is what he did, so let just see just how good a manager we all seem to think he may be

Sir John Hawkins wrote:

Graiser wrote:

Wow what a frenzy on here after losing a match!

What are you talking about Graiser ? Much of the comment on here, especially my own, is the same comment since Brent rocked up, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with losing one match. Some you win, some you lose. No big deal. This isn't Aviva land, no one is asking for Adams' head.
Maybe you're just off on your own particular horse. Discussing the budget has nothing to do with losing one match. Argyle are five points clear, with the best manager since Holloway, and the best player since Nallis or Hayles.
One fly in the ointment is Reid. The injury that flared up just after the Portsmouth approach thing is beginning to ring bells in my head. Adams did the only thing he could, by infering perhaps it could be somewhat illegal, or not, depending on whether you're a member of the IAAF or no

I'm not any particular horse, just appears to me we've lost a game we probably expected to win and a lot of posters appear to be walking the plank and predicting doom, the squads thin alright.

Management is a balance, you decide to pay high salaries for quality players, your squad becomes smaller, your best players get targeted = injuries = poor substitutes, bit of a tightrope to walk innit