HHP planning application recommended for approval

Freathy wrote:

While we watch other clubs going forward with ambitious stadium plans (Southend, Bristol Rovers, Brentford etc) in the footsteps of Swansea, Cardiff, Hulll and Brighton we have to endure Argyle's massive permanent step backwards.  And the deeply unpleasant sight of superfans and their thick followers who love brent becuase they think "eeeee saved us" crowing from the top of their dung heaps is more than I can stand right now.  This is a very black day for the club.  In fact it's the beginning of the end.

That said I still feel their might be a twist or two yet that will send the scumbag banker packing empty handed

brilliant post freathy, is there nothing more stomach churning than nooligan x throbber and co gloating. a dark day indeed!

Pokesdown wrote:

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

There is no keep Argyle small and village gang in this.    Not one person would be objecting, including the super fans, if the proposals were for 25000 rather than as is.    Brent has done his sums and plans on his own affordability best for himself and the Company.    There is no evidence that anyone else would have built it bigger or better because they aren't here.

I want the ground completed.    I am disappointed along with the majority that it isn't what I thought it could be or should be for Argyle.    I have no objections to Brent or anyone else making money because that's what they are in business for primarily.    I have no particular objection to changing the park footprint.    Some do have and I respect that even if it doesn't matter so much to me.    This was always going to get passed and I have consistently said as much because that was always my opinion.    PCC wants something for the City and this provides it and planning always has a slightly hidden agenda for other things not directly connected to what is on the table.    If we approve A then we get B as well.    A is ok and can be made to fit in with somewhere near what we wanted and is worth taking up to get B.    Object to A and B goes with it.     It's fairly obvious when you look at it coldly without an Argyle head on which is what they will do.    There is simply no real evidence that the capacity is too small.    Figures prove more that it is about right than not.    Ambition is only what you would like to happen without any evidence to back it up.    In the end it probably won't put off that many from carrying on with their support of the team.    It won't inspire that many to engage either but the ambition of the premiership is only a pipe dream currently anyway given where we are.

As many have said SG it is not about the capacity today but the ease with which capacity can be increased. Most do not believe Brent has a sensible plan for this and probably doesn't care either way, it will be someone else's problem. Not only is the cost per seat high because we are restricted by the retail units but the planning report highlighted today suggests that any future increase in capacity would trigger major highway improvements.

You have absolutely diddly squat chance of maintaining a Championship presence challenging for promotion on a capacity of 17k. You may get there (see Yeovil/Bournemouth) but there's only way you'll leave the Championship.

So basically this Horseshit that has been fed since day 1 about increasing to 20,500 is exactly that.....Horseshit,sums up what us realists on ATD have been saying since the very beginning.
I hope the Turkeys and Jamboys on Pasoti are proud of themselves tonight...i hope they swim in a lake of fire over this. 

I'd personally like the the phrase, 'the likes of' banned. We are now entering a new era (Courtesy of JB and sponsored by FIL/FES) of aspiring to mediocrity. When, if I ever get there, I'm Trings age, no offence, I'll be able to tell my kids that had we shown the right ambition at the right time, that could of been us once. I'm refering to the likes of Bristol Rovers, Crawley and Fleetwood here. Not the giants of the game that are Norwich, Hull, Brighton, Reading and Swansea. It's not quite the final nail in the coffin of Plymouth Argyle for me yet, but the hammer has been drawn back ready to strike.

Steve

I do believe the chairman at Hull was threatening to take them elsewhere as the council wouldn't let him build a big enough stadium...

cornysteve wrote:

I'd personally like the the phrase, 'the likes of' banned. We are now entering a new era (Courtesy of JB and sponsored by FIL/FES) of aspiring to mediocrity. When, if I ever get there, I'm Trings age, no offence, I'll be able to tell my kids that had we shown the right ambition at the right time, that could of been us once. I'm refering to the likes of Bristol Rovers, Crawley and Fleetwood here. Not the giants of the game that are Norwich, Hull, Brighton, Reading and Swansea. It's not quite the final nail in the coffin of Plymouth Argyle for me yet, but the hammer has been drawn back ready to strike.

Steve

The sad fact is we were so close to being up there with the likes of Norwich, Hull, Brighton, Reading and Swansea had Stapes and co shown the ambition and balls to go for it when Ollie was here.

They didn't and instead sold his team and things went from bad to worse from there.

Now look at the 2013 version and once again the lack of ambition being shown by the club is astonishing. Brent could've easily gave up a bit of his and the wifes profit and provided a better stadium plan that gave the option to expand but no, all he gave a toss about is the holiday fund for the Brent's and has stuck two fingers up to the supporters who have stood by the club through thick and thin.

Argyle will never again be able to aspire to be a premier league club. The very best we can hope for is a flirt with the league one play offs.

PAFC=No ambition.

The trouble with football supporters is that they look at something wholely and solely from a supporters point of view. They aspire to be at the top with every facility going they can get. There is nothing wrong with that and it's natural. Why wouldn't they because they love their club after all. I'm no different because I have dreamt of making it to the top with Argyle for longer than I care to remember. All we see is lack of ambition and being sold short but through tinted glasses if we are honest.

Brent is a banker who is new to the football business and he doesn't have the same passion no matter what anyone says. Planning people are the same who only look at the project in front of them. They don't aspire to anything except if the project is viable, affordable and roughly in keeping with local plans. That's what we have always been up against. People like Newell have banged on how great everything is because of some ego trip but none of them have influenced this in any way shape or form. Brent hasn't asked them except maybe to try to sell it to the faithful. Why would he ask them if he has a bunch of professionals at his call who crunch numbers and come up with what can get passed the planning stage.

As somebody else pointed out I think, if Argyle ever do the dream then Brent will probably be long gone so it won't be his problem. All he will think about at best is getting his money back to put back into his pot if he has actually spent anything. It will be the problem for somebody else and Brent won't give a jot. He's not an Argyle fan he's a number crunching businessman but he's the one we have got and there is little if nothing we can do about that now.

Is is possible that planning permission will be granted on a condition the stadium capacity can be increased in the future? Or are we past that now?

As far as I understand it the capacity can be increased in the future so not sure that will have any influence on anything. The fact that any increase will be difficult and expensive isn't the planning people's problem I'd guess.

TheDuke wrote:

Is is possible that planning permission will be granted on a condition the stadium capacity can be increased in the future? Or are we past that now?

 That is sadly looking like the best case scenario that could come about from this utter shambles of a project. But like all things Argyle dont hold your breath.
The scum that helped to pave the way for JB and continue to do so deserve to be strung up publicly horsewhipped at half time.

TheDuke wrote:

Is is possible that planning permission will be granted on a condition the stadium capacity can be increased in the future? Or are we past that now?

I don't think that's a planning issue so they wouldn't put that into any stipulation on the proposed development. And it is still only a proposal - the elected members could choose to ignore their planners' recommendations - unlikely but possible - so technically we are still not past that.

punchdrunk wrote:

TheDuke wrote:

Is is possible that planning permission will be granted on a condition the stadium capacity can be increased in the future? Or are we past that now?

 That is sadly looking like the best case scenario that could come about from this utter shambles of a project. But like all things Argyle dont hold your breath.
The scum that helped to pave the way for JB and continue to do so deserve to be strung up publicly horsewhipped at half time.

You can add any sellout council to that mob - the welsh guy up front!! Brent will go down in history at the club for all the wrong reasons - been shafted, and don't like it one bit!!

Sensiblegreeny wrote:

As far as I understand it the capacity can be increased in the future so not sure that will have any influence on anything.    The fact that any increase will be difficult and expensive isn't the planning people's problem I'd guess.

Absolutely. This future capacity increase crap is only for the gullable brent lovers who want to belive anything he says becuase "eeeeee saved us". Not even brents superfan inner circle believe capacity will be increased in the future although they spout this shit to keep on message. It is possible the ground capacity could be increased in the future by extending the horshoe. It's also possible that I could go to the moon next year. But both scenarios for reasons of practicality and cost make them, well, extremely unlikely to happen.

Under the current plans there's a great big hotel access road going to be built right up against and adjacent to where the current Lyndhurst/Barn Park stands are. So any expansion of these stands would only ever equate to a bolted on shelf of around five rows, many of which would have partial views of the pitch (not such a bad thing) due to the main concrete stantions that are already there not being able to be moved.

In short, Brent's hotel access road kills any realistic genuine expansion of these stands. Besides, it'd look fuking stupid anyway, because of the main stand being smaller! The only stand that could realistically be extended is the Devonport.

So we extend the Demport. Put a shelf on the Lyndy/BP. Keep the new Mini-stand cos' that's cleverly hemmed in by a fuking ice-rink, then rename Home Park -

The Lop-Sided Clusterfuck FES Arena  

Czarcasm wrote:

Under the current plans there's a great big hotel access road going to be built right up against and adjacent to where the current Lyndhurst/Barn Park stands are. So any expansion of these stands would only ever equate to a bolted on shelf of around five rows, many of which would have partial views of the pitch (not such a bad thing) due to the main concrete stantions that are already there not being able to be moved.

In short, Brent's hotel access road kills any realistic genuine expansion of these stands.  Besides, it'd look fuking stupid anyway, because of the main stand being smaller! The only stand that could realistically be extended is the Devonport.

So we extend the Demport. Put a shelf on the Lyndy/BP. Keep the new Mini-stand cos' that's cleverly hemmed in by a fuking ice-rink, then rename Home Park -

The Lop-Sided Clusterfuck FES Arena  

Jesus wept

knecht wrote:

TheDuke wrote:

Is is possible that planning permission will be granted on a condition the stadium capacity can be increased in the future? Or are we past that now?

I don't think that's a planning issue so they wouldn't put that into any stipulation on the proposed development. And it is still only a proposal - the elected members could choose to ignore their planners' recommendations - unlikely but possible - so technically we are still not past that.

knecht is surely right in saying that stadium capacity will be not an issue regarding planning permission....doesn't that come into how long is a bit of string syndrome....it doesn't come into the equation at all.

Czarcasm wrote:

Under the current plans there's a great big hotel access road going to be built right up against and adjacent to where the current Lyndhurst/Barn Park stands are. So any expansion of these stands would only ever equate to a bolted on shelf of around five rows, many of which would have partial views of the pitch (not such a bad thing) due to the main concrete stantions that are already there not being able to be moved.

In short, Brent's hotel access road kills any realistic genuine expansion of these stands.  Besides, it'd look fuking stupid anyway, because of the main stand being smaller! The only stand that could realistically be extended is the Devonport.

So we extend the Demport. Put a shelf on the Lyndy/BP. Keep the new Mini-stand cos' that's cleverly hemmed in by a fuking ice-rink, then rename Home Park -

The Lop-Sided Clusterfuck FES Arena  

PAVFC............ Aviva til the end.

Czarcasm wrote:

Under the current plans there's a great big hotel access road going to be built right up against and adjacent to where the current Lyndhurst/Barn Park stands are. So any expansion of these stands would only ever equate to a bolted on shelf of around five rows, many of which would have partial views of the pitch (not such a bad thing) due to the main concrete stantions that are already there not being able to be moved.

In short, Brent's hotel access road kills any realistic genuine expansion of these stands.  Besides, it'd look fuking stupid anyway, because of the main stand being smaller! The only stand that could realistically be extended is the Devonport.

So we extend the Demport. Put a shelf on the Lyndy/BP. Keep the new Mini-stand cos' that's cleverly hemmed in by a fuking ice-rink, then rename Home Park -

The Lop-Sided Clusterfuck FES Arena  

there are ways, wearing my devils advocate hat, such as Forests Trent End structure :

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built over the access road along the river.

now im dreaming!  

Simon Inglis - Football Grounds of Britain wrote:

If one were to classify Britain's 'sleeping giants' in order, Cardiff might be tops for self-destruction, Hull has the largest population never
to have supported top flight football, but Plymouth, surely, has the ground location which most clubs would die for." (Simon Inglis, 1996)

I wonder if this will still be the case when the micro stand, the ring road and Jimmy's back passage have been completed?

argyle will be playing in cornwall, once the good times return, arrive i mean

Mapperley, darling wrote:

argyle will be playing in cornwall, once the good times return, arrive i mean

I wouldn't be surprised if the club does move eventually. With the micro stand being built we will have missed out for the 3rd great "boom" time of English football - we blew it in the 1930s, 1950s/60s and now in the Premiership era. If there is still a professional team in Plymouth for the next boom I hope we can be part of it - but I don't hold out any hopes now.

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Simon Inglis - Football Grounds of Britain wrote:

If one were to classify Britain's 'sleeping giants' in order, Cardiff might be tops for self-destruction, Hull has the largest population never
to have supported top flight football, but Plymouth, surely, has the ground location which most clubs would die for." (Simon Inglis, 1996)

I wonder if this will still be the case when the micro stand, the ring road and Jimmy's back passage have been completed?

Thanks Frank. The original came out in 1983 when I was 13. It was football porn looking at all the photo's of the different grounds and reading their histories. Without the internet, being born and bred in Plymouth and used to the grand open spaces of Home Park places like Oakwell, Ayresome Park, Burnden Park were fascinating.

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I see the Porkstain multis and his chums have been bust at work today in the comments section

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And meanwhile on page 5 the Avivas are saying that they hope the micro-stand ensures we remain in the lower leagues as they like being a big fish in a little pond!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Were wont even that dubious honour any-more you idiots      God give me strength.
Village team, Village supporters,Village mentality, Village ambition......As Tringy says "Aviva chose well"

Its going to happen, we have to accept that now

Frank Bullitt wrote:

Mapperley, darling wrote:

argyle will be playing in cornwall, once the good times return, arrive i mean

I wouldn't be surprised if the club does move eventually. With the micro stand being built we will have missed out for the 3rd great "boom" time of English football - we blew it in the 1930s, 1950s/60s and now in the Premiership era. If there is still a professional team in Plymouth for the next boom I hope we can be part of it - but I don't hold out any hopes now.

I can't see the club ever moving.

(a) we'll probably never need to as we'll never get near being a successful football club again

and (b) I can't see anywhere in the City that would welcome the construction of a new football stadium.

The dream for this football club really has died.